In RECOIL Magazine‘s latest issue, issue #4, RECOIL features the HK MP7A1, a Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) made by the Heckler & Koch (HK). The MP7A1 is smaller than a conventional submachine gun with rifle capabilities firing the HK developed 4.6 x 30mm round which is capable of defeating most conventionally used body armor.
Well in typical HK fashion, the MP7A1 will not be sold to civilians, which should not surprise anyone familiar with HK’s history. What might surprise you, however, is that RECOIL Magazine editor Jerry Tsai agrees with HK. In his MP7A1 write-up, he had this to say.
Like we mentioned before, the MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that’s technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of. It is made to put down scumbags, and that’s it. Mike Cabrera of Heckler & Koch Law Enforcement Sales and veteran law enforcement officer with SWAT unit experience points out that this is a gun that you do not want in the wrong, slimy hands. It comes with semi-automatic and full-auto firing modes only. Its overall size places it between a handgun and submachine gun. Its assault rifle capabilities and small size make this a serious weapon that should not be taken lightly.
- Jerry Tsai, Editor, RECOIL Magazine Issue #4
There’s so much wrong with the above nonsense, I’m tempted to dissect each and every ridiculous thing he said. In the interest of brevity however, I will instead focus only on the most grievous of mendacities, Tsai’s statements about “sporting applications.” Pay attention Jerry, you might learn something.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
- Second Amendment, United States Constitution
The Second Amendment, for those who do not know, has nothing to do with sporting applications, to use Tsai’s ignorant Brady Campaign phrase. The Second Amendment doesn’t protect our right to hunt, and it’s not about concealed carry as most believe. It’s really not even about home defense.
The Second Amendment is about protecting our ability, our right, and our duty to oppose tyranny.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government…
- The Declaration of Independence
You see, our founding fathers knew something about tyranny. They knew that in order to prevent and potentially oppose tyranny, the people must be sufficiently armed in the same manner as the organized militia (the military). That’s why keeping and bearing arms is the Second Amendment to the Constitution, second only to our First Amendment right to freely speak out against the government.
If HK wants to sell the MP7A1 to military and law enforcement only, so be it. I don’t agree with that decision of course, but they can do whatever they want. I do, however, have a major problem with RECOIL Magazine selling out its readers and pandering to the gun control advocates with their “sporting applications” ignorance, and I for one am never buying another copy of RECOIL.
Further Reading
United States v. Miller established that the Second Amendment protects an individual’s right to possess weapons that are used for the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia.
District of Columbia v. Heller held that the Second Amendment protects an individual’s right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes in federal enclaves.
McDonald v. Chicago held that the Second Amendment applies to the individual states.
RECOIL’s Response
Once the fallout started on the RECOIL Facebook Fan Page, RECOIL Editor Jerry Tsai responded in a pitiful attempt at damage control. I have included his response from their Facebook page unaltered in its entirety below in case you want to read it. He does not retract his statement, he does not apologize, instead, he tries to justify his own ignorance.
At the time of writing, advertisers like Silencerco have already started pulling out from RECOIL. Here’s hoping more follow.
Update 9/14/2012: Jerry Tsai has resigned as Editor of RECOIL Magazine.
Hey guys, this is Jerry Tsai, Editor of RECOIL. I think I need to jump in here and clarify what I wrote in the MP7A1 article. It looks like I may not have stated my point clearly enough in that line that is quoted up above. Let’s be clear, neither RECOIL nor I are taking the stance on what should or should not be made available on the commercial market although I can see how what was written can be confused as such.
Because we don’t want anything to be taken out of context, let’s complete that quote and read the entire paragraph:
“Like we mentioned before, the MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that’s technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of. It is made to put down scumbags, and that’s it. Mike Cabrera of Heckler & Koch Law Enforcement Sales and veteran law enforcement officer with SWAT unit experience points out that this is a gun that you do not want in the wrong, slimy hands. It comes with semi-automatic and full-auto firing modes only. Its overall size places it between a handgun and submachine gun. Its assault rifle capabilities and small size make this a serious weapon that should not be taken lightly.”
Let’ also review why this gun should not be taken lightly. In the article it was stated that the MP7A1 is a slightly larger than handgun sized machine-gun that can be accurately fired and penetrate Soviet style body armor at more than 300 yards. In the wrong hands, that’s a bad day for the good guys.
As readers of RECOIL, we all agree that we love bad-ass hardware, there’s no question about that. I believe that in a perfect world, all of us should have access to every kind of gadget that we desire. Believe me, being a civvie myself, I’d love to be able to get my hands on an MP7A1 of my own regardless of its stated purpose, but unfortunately the reality is that it isn’t available to us. As a fellow enthusiast, I know how frustrating it is to want something only to be denied it.
Its manufacturer has not made the gun available to the general public and when we asked if it would ever come to the commercial market, they replied that it is strictly a military and law enforcement weapon, adding that there are no sporting applications for it. Is it wrong that HK decided against selling a full-auto pocket sized machine gun that can penetrate armor from hundreds of yards away? It’s their decision to make and their decision they have to live with not mine nor anybody else’s.
I accepted their answer for what it was out of respect for those serving in uniform. I believe that we as gun enthusiasts should respect our brothers in law enforcement, agency work and the military and also keep them out of harms way. Like HK, I wouldn’t want to see one of these slip into the wrong hands either. Whether or not you agree with this is fine. I am compelled to explain a point that I was trying to make that may have not been clear.
Thanks for reading,
- JT, Editor, RECOIL
When people like Travis Haley and Jim Fuller dump Recoil, then I will too. Until then, it’s just a bunch of cry-babies have a good scream over a cruddy article.
I’m not sure I understand what Haley and Fuller have to do with it?
They both were heavily featured in issue two and big supporters of the magazine and at least one of them continues to be, despite one crappy article about elitist H&K firearms.
I see. Well we each must decide for ourselves, but I respectfully disagree.
I didn’t decide to stop supporting them because Rob Pincus vehemently spoke out against them, or because Silencerco dropped them as an advertiser. I make my own decisions, and to me, this is a very important issue.
No doubt it’s a fuck-up on their end, but based on the quality of work and who they’ve gotten as advertisers to this point, I’m willing to forgive (but not forget) this time around. The mass hysteria created on the internets about this has really rubbed me the wrong way. Much more so than the actual article itself.
wow, really Stan? Fanboy much?
Nah, I’m too poor to be a fanboy. Got a mortgage and family to take care of first.
They have secured the advertisers because they are owned by a company that publishes over 80 magazines and have a major sales department. That said, they are run by corporate guys crunching the numbers who give a rats ass about guns, gear or the 2A. This is their fist magazine in the gun world and proof that they don’t understand the culture. The “lifestyle” is more than pretty pictures and expensive gear. It’s a fight for our rights and airsoft fanboys(JT) don’t have a clue.
^valid.
Great write up! Although I think H&K’s are quality firearms, I do not own and H&K weapons for this reason. In my opinion you are right and RECOIL is wrong. I will never buy an issue of RECOIL. Thanks for your impute.
Amen brother!
Wow, this Jerry guy clearly doesn’t get it. Thanks for sharing this info. I won’t be buying recoil magazine.
My name is Chris Gleason I am the CEO of Molon Labe Industries. We had been considering running several months of full page advertising in Recoil. I can assure you that based on the article and the editor’s response we will never give them a dime. I have cancelled my personal subscription and have urged all of our fans and followers to do the same.
Thanks for the feedback Chris, and thanks for sharing our article.
@Stan Smith, I contacted Travis Haley through Facebook…per his page admin, he has dumped RECOIL.
When he and Fuller publicly announced it, then I’ll re-consider my position. Also, Jason Falla of Redback One (issue #1), and Chris Costa had a nice write-up on his LaRue Tactical rifle in issue #3. Where do they stand?
Dude you are unreal. You’ll only reconsider your position when/if your heroes change their minds?
Those people are some of the guiding lights in our community. Heroes, all of them, without doubt.
What does it matter. I like all those guys too, but grow a pair and make a decision on your own. RECOIL has proved by that article and the response that they don’t give a crap.
I can assure you my pair is PLENTY huge. In fact, 5.11 has to custom sew my TacLite Pros for me.
You sir, are an excellent troll. “Whatever Costa and Haley have to say, that’s what I think about it”! LOL nice one on the 5.11 comment too. You’re good. OR if that isn’t trolling, I don’t even know what to say, because my heroes haven’t told me what I think yet.
I can assure you that I, too, will never purchase RECOIL magazine. Further, and very soon, I will not do business with ANY of it’s advertisers. Tomorrow morning, I will inform every employee of this move by them, and openly encourage each of them to drop RECOIL magazine (think I’ll offer 3 for 1 subscription replacement), and after the next issue, to proactively avoid each and every advertiser in their magazine. I know of atleast 240+ educated, financially blessed people who work for me that shoot. A lot!! And I will take the time and make the expense to assure that all of our dollars and all of our loyalty go to people and companies who are unwavering 2nd Ammendment supporters.
And let’s really face it guys, it was a marginal magazine at best with poor editorial quality from jump street. There is not, nor can there EVER be, any compromise on the issue at hand. It’s the same reason I don’t own H&K products. I have a significant modern firearm collection. As an American, I can and do responsibly own stamp guns and cans. Those type of weapons just don’t fall into the hands of bad guys. Unless our government does it!!
It’s unfortunate but real that we’re at a point now where we offer no quarter, and suffer no fools or entities any apostasy on this issue. You want to suck up to the left? You have to do that to make your paycheck? Fine! But rest assured I’ll remain faithful to the cause. And I’ll use any and every opportunity to use my influence to thwart your plans. The stakes are just to high for this country and our liberty!
Are you for real? I forgot, its the internet. lol. Would think people would be more upset at elitist H&K and their snobbery toward making civilian versions of their products, than a half-assed article in a magazine that Tiny declares is marginal at best. Rock on Tiny and your quest to suffer the fools.
The only “fool” I see on this page is you, Stan…Wake up and smell The Revolution….
The revolution stinks, smells like moldy, wet feet and people who shower once a month, while living in their parents basement. Keepin’ it real, and keepin’ it frosty.
I personally am more upset with H&K, have been for years. I wouldn’t purchase any of their firearms because of their jackass attitude towards the civilian market. Although I will say I’ve HIGHLY enjoyed the very small amount of trigger time I’ve gotten on a few HK firearms (so that just pisses me off even more). Honestly Recoil doesn’t really mean squat to me, and neither does one persons’ opinion really, but the editors’ comment has provided hours of entertainment either way. It’s a magazine, and will probably be a short-lived one unless they do something major to correct this; hey, I could be wrong, but people are being pretty vocal about it. Anyway, there’s plenty of free info on the internet, and most of the stuff that’s been in Recoil has made it onto the internet (accessible for free anyway) in one place or another, I’ve even seen many comments to that extent. I’m glad to see that some people are going to the source and not blaming the messenger though, that was my major beef with this whole thing. Basically it comes down to this, HK is the one REALLY making an anti 2A statement, and they’re making it in a much larger and more effective way than Recoil did. Actions speak louder than words. So Stan, I disagree with you on the other things you have said, but in the area of blaming HK for HK’s attitude toward the civilian market, well said.
Lobbie, that is some of the sanest, and most well-reasoned comments I’ve seen all day on this issue. I salute you!
HK just issued a statement that what Recoil has been saying in now way reflects their policies…
“The contents, opinions, and statements expressed in that feature story are those of the writer, not Heckler and Koch’s. Additionally, the writer and RECOIL magazine have issued a clarification and apology for the ill-chosen words used in the story.”
Of course most the holy H&K would say that. Talk about backtracking after the fact. H&K feelings towards lowly civilians is well know to be poor at best, unless you got mountains of cashola to play with der German’s zepons. Good thing my operator bro’s got all the H&K’s we’ll ever need in any situation. Stay frosty Rob!
“Stan Smith” is Jerry Tsai’s codename. Carry on, nothing to see here.
Because its only a travesty if Chris Costa says it is. HOLY SHIT.
I mention those names because they appeared in the magazine, with very good articles accompanying them, and carry considerable clout in the industry. So it reasons that if they all tell Recoil to pound sand, then so be it. Personally this whole fiasco, brought on by Jerry Tsai, has turned into nothing but a public lynching of a promising magazine. Y’all brought the torches and ropes, yeee haww.
Stan probably wears 5.11 pants and polo shirts to the grocery store. Looking like those posers we would see in baghdad trying to walk around with everything cool looking and not being able to fight at all. I guess recoil forgot or dosent know that “civies” with proper NFA licensing can own this over priced Uzi wannabe. Pound sand gear queers and wannabes.
You’ve sussed me out Army Doc. But damn I look good with in Tactical TacLite Pro Pants, UA Tactical Polo, and my MP7A1 rigged up for some real action. Got me some kydex mag holsters filled to the brim for slaying bodies and breaking hearts.
Quote from Stan “but based on the quality of work and who they’ve gotten as advertisers to this point, I’m willing to forgive”.
Ah, you mean the high quality of such masterpieces as how to take a picture of your guns with a cell phone? Yes, groundbreaking stuff there. *facepalm
And as for sponsors leaving, some already have..others sure to follow. And not to count the ones they will never get now thanks to this idiotic rhetoric.
The Kydex article made me vomit…
Its a quick way for someone to ruin a good piece of plastic. Stevie wonder could do better.
Yeah man, that Kydex article was crap.
If you have a picture of bullet riddled issues 1-3 or have a canceled subscription let me know. Currently offering 15% off refunds if you wanted to pick up some kit.
Dude that’s awesome! Does issue #4 count?
LOL! Nice way to pickup business off of others misfortune. If I send in a bullet riddled copy of “Atlas Shrugged”, how much of a discount will I get?
Stan – you’re a complete tool. Next time, re-attach your balls and use your real name, troll.
-Thom Kane
Right Thom, whatever you say. How about getting some balls to not follow the mob for once?
Brandon sure why not. i just hope people dont go out and buy it! LOL
Stan, ask Travis or Costa if they are ok with it first. Then we can talk.
So Jerry basically pulled the, “Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?” defense of his pulling a massive Zumbo.
I certainly hope the magazine’s readership recognizes how much they have just been insulted.
My Open Letter to Recoil Magazine:
DEAR RECOIL MAGAZINE,
In reference to: “Like we mentioned before, the MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that’s technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of…” To say I disagree with your thoughts on the MP7 would be a gross understatement.
In fact, the statement’s ignorance is amazing. In case you didn’t notice, the only reason Glocks, M&Ps, and probably most of the guns that are paying for advertising space in your rag are built is to put down bad guys. People may find “sporting purposes” for them but gun games aren’t why they exist. If Wired or Maxim had said what you did, I wouldn’t care. You should’ve known better.
The vast majority of firearms that have been designed and built in the history of the tool have been built for defensive or offensive use. Regardless of the intended role, military, law enforcement or civilian, the overwhelming majority of firearms on shelves in gun shops and shown in the pages of your now incredibly disappointing magazine are designed for use by people against people.
While the “shooting sports” label may be a banner that has hung over our industry for political and (sometimes) marketing reasons, your young magazine hasn’t exactly catered to the waterfowl or skeet crowds.
Personally, the MP7 is one of the few guns on the planet that I would rush out and pay H&K Retail Price for, if it were ever offered for civilian sale. I’ve had the pleasure of shooting them many times and training teams that use them. It is a great tool, but didn’t possess any magical power that made it reckless, dangerous or inappropriate for any responsible firearms owner to possess…for whatever reason they desire.
After reading Jerry Tsai’s attempt to justify the position by saying that he is concerned about the gun getting into the “wrong hands” and posing a threat to law enforcement, it is even more clear that this wasn’t just a slip up or the parroting of H&K’s sales policy. There is obviously an opinion held by the leadership of your magazine that thinks some guns are okay for us to own and some are not.
The ridiculousness of the idea that because MP7 rounds can penetrate soft body armor, they shouldn’t be owned by civilians is the kind of thing gun control advocates and anti-gunners say, not something that should be coming out of the mouth of a magazine that cashes checks written by the gun industry and its customers.
I had high hopes for your publication. Now I expect people to stop reading it, advertisers to fade away and your writers to submit their work to other publications that actually understand the industry they are covering.
Rob Pincus
I.C.E. Training Company
Thanks Rob, well said.
Well put as usual, Rob. My sentiments exactly. As for the fanboi above, I will respect Brandon’s site and just leave that alone. Be safe all.
ok, read everything but the editor’s reply and I have to wonder why this was even posted. I actually agree with him, what purpose does it serve to have on the market a gun that can mow down the local police officer? I could understand wanting one because they look cooler than shit but I mean come on. Putting those on the market for civilans to get their hands on is just begging for the gun control jackasses to tighten the reins that much more. I’m not pro gun control by any stretch of the imagination but I also have the sense to realize there is not purpose but death and destruction associated with that. I’m sorry but this doesn’t dissuade me from buying future Recoil Magazines.
The MP7 serves the same purpose as virtually every other firearm ever built – to kill. There are a lot of rifles on the market that can be used to “mow down” police officers. Should we prevent civilians from owning them as well, or just the MP7? Where is the line drawn, and who draws it?
ok, you said virtually and your right. I’m not arguing that fact, what I’m saying is that if they put that gun out for the general public then that makes it that much easier for the scumbags to get it. As of right now there’s too much trouble for the average thug to get one, you put it in stores where it’s bought by anyone, these idiots will be getting them by the truckload and make stuff like the Colorado shooting look like a paintball match. I know that’s not what anyone wants and I know that the responsible gun owner wouldn’t do anything so stupid, but let’s not fool ourselves here. we all know that the number of not so responsible gun owners that obtain any firearm is almost as great a number as the responsible firearms owner.
Wow Kevin, are you SURE you read this whole post? Didn’t learn anything about the real purpose of the 2A? Once you start letting them ban a certain class of weapon it will only escalate further and further until the US looks like the UK.
I know it’s real purpose. It’s to kill, maim, destroy take life, injure, hurt, make another human bleed. Short sweet and to the point! That is the ONLY purpose for this, the other guns that we are allowed to own have been dumbed down so to speak. But since you feel I missed something, please by all means tell me what it was I missed.
Kevin, as the brits like to say, seems your a bit thick. Go back to Brandon’s post up a bit and re-read it, think it over longer, and then try again.
ok so I’m not milling thru everything, got a specic area I’m supposed to re-read? figure I’d save the time and ask first, lol
This part:
“The MP7 serves the same purpose as virtually every other firearm ever built – to kill. There are a lot of rifles on the market that can be used to “mow down” police officers. Should we prevent civilians from owning them as well, or just the MP7? Where is the line drawn, and who draws it?”
This format of comments is hard to keep track of everything, and keep it straight who said what, once it goes past one or two replies. Stay with us, we can help you on this.
right I got that, but I think this is where my views differ from those of the board so to speak. I look at this from the view of someone who has several members of my family that put a badge on everyday. For that gun to avaiable to the general public would make their job that much harder. Someone said ealier that anyone with a NFA license can get a MP7 and they’re probably right, willing to bet the firearms dealers that have class III license can get them too. What I’m saying is that the bad guys will see this as a new way to get what they want, because as we all know..they don’t play by the rules like most of us good law abiding responsible gun owners. But you know what, what the hell! Let’s make it to where you can go into Cabela’s or Bass Pro or even the local gun store and pick one of thses bad boys up. Sure that means a few street gangs will now be able to get around them thru their usual channels but that’s ok because we got the government to let us have these, woo hoo, hoorah for us!
“Stan Smith” as in the character from American Dad? Could you be anymore obvious? You are 100% from RECOIL or one of the subsidiaries trying to deflect towards H&K…haha. Don’t sound so rehearsed in your posts.
I am 100% behind Recoil, and against their public lynching due to a poor bit of writing. I am not associated with Recoil, nor any related companies. Just a poor schmuck struggling through life, doing the best I can for my family each day. I am 100% smart ass, always available to point out the obvious hypocrisy in this situation. Sorry to disappoint you Ron, maybe next time.
You got the schmuck part right. No one is lynching anyone, people are just calling BS when they see it. If you weren’t such a fanboi you’d be able to see that too.
fanboi? What is that? I am a schmuck for trying to reason with the mob-mentality this situation has created.
If it were just the “one liner” in the article, your “voice of reason” position would be tenable. Since the editor’s attempt to JUSTIFY that statement and his reiteration of his position that the gun shouldn’t be sold because the rounds can penetrate soft body armor, your position is specious, at best.
It might have appeared that they “slipped”, but then they wallowed around in the mud and said they did it on purpose and liked it down there.
-RJP
Hope you all bookmark the Monderno.com page. Brandon and team do alot of great reviews and present fantastic information. My name is Stan Smith, and I approve this message!
Only way out of this one recoil is a new editor.
Regarding the HK thing….
First and foremost, the author of the offending article is a douche bag, no crap FA MP7s aren’t going to be falling into the hands of the civilians, why isn’t anyone schooling him on the short list of FA / Select Fire arms that are available to civilians here in the States?
As for the angst on HK, I own several of their pistols. I like them but I wouldn’t call myself a “fan boy”
If you’re going to roll out the torch and pitch fork for HK, some things to remember:
Remington has arms you can’t get as a “civilian”
Ruger supported the Assault Weapons Ban (Oh how I bet ole’ Bill is rolling in his grave over the SR556)hell, it was only in the last couple of years they even started making current production “high” capacity magazines for the Mini 14/30 again.
Last I checked FN isn’t rolling out semi-auto versions of the 249. Despite their marketing claims what’s being built for “them” is not being built for “us”.
Does HK suck for not offering their full product line to the civilian sector? Sure, but they aren’t exactly the only ones doing so.
If you’re going to hate, hate equally. The MR556 and MR762 were released for civilian sale. Looking at the actual gun, to import it as a pistol or non-NFA rifle would be kind of silly. Half the features that make the gun bad-ass would have to be removed.
No fore-grip, no stock or adding a 16″ barrel?????
Would anyone want one after it got neutered?
Lets fix the NFA and FOPA to create a market for this gun in the US and THEN we can bitch at HK for not meeting market demand.
I dunnot what sort of applications does Mr. Tsai speaks of when discussing weapons purchases. As for myself, I purchase firearms to defend myself (re: shoot people). Now I hope to lead a long, safe, health, and fruitful life in which I never have to pick up any of my weapons and use them against any other human being, but if I have to, it’s good to know that I can and will use it.
And I tell you, if the idiots at H&K knew a single thing about the business they would make the MP7 available for purchase to law-abiding citizens. I know that I would readily pay the exhorbitant MSRP that H&K is well known for.
But back to Mr. Tsai. The best think his publisher ought to do is demand a prompt resignation from him. Either that or face the early closing of that publication of theirs. There is no other choice.
Sincerely,
Cuban Pete (the King of the Mambo Beat)
While Haley remains conspicuously silent, Stan Smith, Jim Fuller has weighed in:
“As far as Recoils future, IMO Jerry Tsai needs to step down as editor and find someone who can repair the relationship with the gun community (if possible)”
http://www.facebook.com/RifleDynamics?ref=ts
At least Mr. Fuller is the voice of reason, and not pussing out like the rest of them. Laughable response from Mr. Haley. And Mr. Pincus, you seem to be all over the webs making sure everyone knows your view on this. Did you get bumped for a spot in the next issue or something?
Alrighty then.
Anybody catch the interview with the Seal Team Six member last night?
And from Travis:
http://www.facebook.com/HaleyStrategic/posts/407865432613546
Looks like you can go ahead and not like the magazine now, Stan.
Thanks for the link, good on Travis for speaking out.
We written as always Brandon, keep up the great work.. As for me I will not deal with them..
Thanks Ira.
I have come to realize I was wrong about everything in this matter. I apologize for any comments that hurt anyone’s feelings. I didn’t mean to make anyone cry. Recoil should burn in the deepest part of the Christian hell, or the most awful place the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster tells us about. Don’t get me started on Jerry Tsai. Again, my most sincerest and deepest apology for all those involved. I am Stan Smith, and I approve this message. Stay Frosty.
Kevin, I think that you just don’t get the idea behind not only the 2nd Ammendment but likely the other first 9 ammendments to the Constitution and possibly the entirety of the U.S. Constitution itself.
First and foremost, “rights” are not given or granted by the U.S. government or any other. They are in fact endowed upon men (this includes you too ladies) by the creator, or as Jefferson put it “…Nature’s God…”
The Bill of Rights reaffirms these rights and makes the bold statement that the government that has been created by the Contitution cannot and shall not make any law abridging or restricting the free exercise thereof.
Therefore, there should be no list of firearms that citizens are “allowed” or not allowed” to own. The U.S. Constitution was authored by a group of statesmen that were among the most highly educated, well versed and respected members of the States. They were well versed in the sciences, the arts, world affairs and the intricasies of governance and diplomacy. Yet, the Constitution was written in very plain language that was easily understood.
It constantly perplexes me that 214 years later, people are unable to understand what it says and rely upon the clearly political agenda of the courts to “interpret” what it really means.
Steve, that was very well said. Thanks.
ok, so you feel that based on the 2nd ammendment that there should be all manner of firearm available to anyone? So based on that train of thought, they should repeal the National database that says the criminals and pyschos aren’t allowed to get them because they are mentally unfit? Did it ever occur to ANYBODY that there are reasons, not political or for the almighty dollar, that these laws are in place? It’s not for control, it’s to keep like the idiot in Colorado from having them. Imagine the body count if he would have had something like an MP7, and then the gun control nuts would be baying for blood in the form of having them banned or worse. I do understand it is our God given right to own guns, believe me I do. I do however see that there are just some guns that aren’t street safe because idiots can’t be trusted to use them properly. You wanna make weapons like the MP7 available to the public, make them go thru extense training to learn how to properly use them. once they pass the training, they get a certificate saying they took the course and then if they screw up, the courts can fry their ass for it. But, even at that the gun control vultures will be watching and waiting for someone to step out of line so they can swope in. Let me pose this question to the general concensus here, what purpose would you want this gun for, why do you want it?
Mr. Gill exactly what part of “Shall Not Infringe ” do you not comprehend?Lets suppose that you have an iq of 80. Should the exclude you from the right to.vote or post things on the interweb machine?
Kevin,
Wow.
You really don’t get it?
Do you think killing people with a hunting rifle is “okay”, but killing people with an MP7 would be horrible?
I hope you are thinking “No, Rob Pincus.. that is ridiculous!”…. you’re right it. It is.
Whackos will kill people. They will use whatever means pop into their whacko little heads or that they can get their hands on. Luckily, they are whackos, so they don’t usually do it well. Your example in Colorado, for example, could’ve used the bomb making concept he had put to work in his apartment to build a build in a mini-van and drove it into the lobby of the theatre just before show time and probably taken out a lot more people.
The availability of tools isn’t what makes a killer.
It is however, the availability of tools that allows people to prepare to defend themselves from killers. For most people, there are probably much better tools than an MP7 for that purpose… but, guess what: none of that really matters.
The 2nd Amendment doesn’t say anything about justifying a specific purchase (much like it doesn’t say anything about a “sporting purpose”).
-Rob
Kevin, you know what my first pistol was? Yugo Tokarev, chambered in 7.62×25. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the ballistics of that round, but let me sum it up. 85 gr. 30-caliber projectile with a muzzle velocity over 1,700 FPS. .357 SIG is around 300 FPS slower. 7.62 Tok might not be 4.6×30 or 5.7×28, but it’s quite effective against soft armor. For that matter, I don’t see why you’re whining; we scumbags can already get firearms in 5.7. I paid around $250 for that “cop-killer” pistol the day after I turned 21.
Tell me how an MP7 would have increased the body count in Aurora. I don’t remember hearing about many people saved by their body armor. In fact, I seem to recall stories (later cast into doubt) that the shooter himself was garbed head-to-toe in bulletproof everything. Were that the case, AP capability would have been handy. The dude was using an AR-15 anyway. 5.56 can pop through anything below level 3 nicely.
Why would I want one? Well I don’t particularly, but I’d love a SAW. As stated above, nowhere in 2A is there a reference to sporting applications, reasonable purposes, this gun but not that gun, or needing to explain just what I need it for. It does say “shall not be infringed”. So I want my SAW, they want their MP7s, and let that suffice, because that’s all the explanation you or anyone else are really entitled to.
Well played on your 21st birthday. I opted for a SIG P228, personally.
Sigs were out of my price range 3 years ago. Heck, they still are pretty much. I’ve gotta break out my Tokarev sometime and put some rounds through it again. The ammo isn’t as cheap as it was a few years ago, but fortunately I’ve still got a couple thousand rounds laying around.
Yes, and the Supreme Court agrees. See the United States v. Miller. They ruled that the Second Amendment “guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument[s]” that are used by “well regulated militia[s].” The MP7 by definition fits that description.
As Rob Pincus points out, the “idiot in Colorado” and other psychopaths like him will continue to kill regardless of the tool, and without regard to the laws that must be broken. Gun control doesn’t work my friend, in any form. Gun control only disarms law abiding people, strips them of certain tools.
This is the lie that people buy into. They are told “we’ll just outlaw certain types of scary weapons that we don’t want criminals to have.” <– Read in Barney Frank’s voice, it’ll make you smile. But this is, of course, a logical fallacy – what types of guns do you want criminals to have, exactly? The politicians know this is illogical, but they play on your emotions and your desire to do good, to get you to sacrifice your liberties. Don’t believe the lie.
Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
Some people are asking, understandably, why I have been so involved in the Outcry against Recoil Magazine’s Editor’s Statements over the last couple of days:
I labored under & against the “Sporting Purpose” concept since the ’90s and have had to deal with several companies/organizations over the last 15 years that were slow to move out from under that politically correct marketing approach. When I taped my first DVDs for the PDN Series distributed by the NRA in the mid-2000′s we weren’t allowed to use human shaped targets. There was no “Tactical” section at the first several SHOT Shows I attended. Just recently, another instructor and friend was uninvited from teaching at a shooting range that claims now to be for ‘sport shooting’ only. I’ve had trouble booking courses in certain areas for the same reasons.
Especially in an election year and especially from a magazine that has a growing influence on younger shooters new to our community, I won’t tolerate the concept of guns needing a “sporting purpose” inside our own ranks… and Recoil Magazine has certainly put itself into the training community in a big way.
Do I have a dog in this fight? Yes… and the dog is long in the tooth with a good memory and a perspective on how far we have come in recent history. Let’s not start slipping backwards.
-RJP
hey Stan you Pogue….you can “kill” with a .22…but then again your bleeding heart attitude never put that two+two info together. Your comments are Pure Mall Ninja…..you amuse me Stan, or is it Jerry Tsai, at least your buddy had the nuts to Resign after pissing his company off (an EX Leapers employee for those not in the loop). Keep talking, your showing your colossal ignorance with every word. And get off this lame “As soon as Haley or Fuller talk, How bout you grow a set and make a decision for yourself?
I like the Pogues, great fuckin’ band. Of course you are right. Haley wussed out, Magpul wussed out, and a host of other pansy outfits pulled too. Somedays, it’s just not worth putting on the TacLite Pros and high-speed polo shirt. Stay frosty and Jesus loves you Mark.
An Interview I did yesterday… addressing a few topics, mostly the Recoil Magazine Debacle:
here’s an interview I did yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckUnMcRdv7M&feature=youtu.be
After reading all this “oh how horrible, a killing machine” BS I feel that it is only fair to point out that humans were using fists & feet (the original assault weapons) rocks & clubs (see Cain & Able) long before firearms of any kind showed up. In fact, more people have been killed & more property destroyed by automobiles than anything else invented in the last couple hundred years. Perhaps what we really need to regulate is high speed assault cars with fully automatic transmissions & high capacity gas tanks. makes as much sense as anything else. Oh, & dont try the poor Heroshima cry baby stuff. More people were killed in Nanking by fists, feet clubs, bayonets & yes firearms than were killed in Heroshima & Nagasaki combined.
Geez Louise!
What H&K really said:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/09/foghorn/hk-hangs-recoil-magazine-out-to-dry/
H&K Speaks Out…..
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/09/foghorn/hk-hangs-recoil-magazine-out-to-dry/